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Post by jkinger26 on Jul 7, 2009 18:49:02 GMT -4
I have been associated with the Baltimore franchise since 1997 and have enjoyed coming to Johnstown to see one of the greatest amateur baseball tournaments in the country. I have a suggestion for a change in the tournament format. This change would eliminate a regional like the one that is going to occur in Altoona in 2009.
Here is the proposal: Change the current double-elimination tournament which has 16 teams, to a 20 team round robin tournament.
You could create 4 brackets with a total of 5 teams in each bracket. Bracket 1 would be Baltimore with 4 other teams. Bracket 2 would be New Orleans with 4 other teams. Bracket 3, Washington with 4 other teams and Bracket 4, Johnstown with 4 other teams. This would ensure that every team in the tournament plays 4 games. This would also guarantee that Johnstown would play 4 night games, Monday thru Thursday, and would benefit from gate receipts.
The 2 teams from each bracket with the best record would advance to a single elimination format starting Friday. So 8 teams remain on Friday, 4 teams on Saturday and the championship on Sunday.
This would also ensure that Baltimore, Johnstown, New Orleans and Washington never play each other until at the earliest on Friday. The reason I chose these four teams is because of the current 23 active franchises, Baltimore, Washington and New Orleans have been the most successful and Johnstown is the host.
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Post by BrianV on Jul 7, 2009 20:52:26 GMT -4
The problem is not how the national tournament is structured, but rather in determining which teams qualify for Johnstown.
The 16-team bracket works the best because we've got it figured out to where everyone has to win the same number of games, we can play all week, all of the games are meaningful, and there are no byes.
With pool play, you'll end up with meaningless games at the end, and with 5-teams per pool, you're guaranteed to have 1 team sitting idle each day.
And using pools instead of brackets still doesn't solve the main problem, which is how do you reduce a field of 22 or 23 teams down to 16? Even if you expand to a 20-team tournament, there are still 2 or 3 teams that need to be left out.
The solution to that problem is the regionals system, where teams are selected to qualify for the final spot. It just so happens that this year, the 3 best teams have to qualify, and it just so happens that they're all in the same geographically region.
What would be better is if we could get some other teams of the same caliber as Balitmore, Washington and Philadelphia. For example, has Lansing ever been a threat? Or Chicago-South Shore? Even the NYC teams seem to struggle. If there was some more parity between teams, this regional wouldn't be such a big deal. (Nor if Baltimore hadn't won the past 6 years in a row)
Brian_V
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ram
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Post by ram on Jul 8, 2009 7:27:15 GMT -4
Yes, this just happens to be one of those years where the stars align and all of the top teams go to one regional...it happens. I dont think its any reason to shake up the whole structure of the national tourney.
I was checking out the Cal Ripken League website yesterday and I see that Youse's Orioles are only 17-9 and in third place in their league.....
I believe I remember one year where the Baltimore representative was Bethesda Big Train and Baltimore didnt qualify for the tourney....could this happen again this year? I was surprised to see 17-9. Youses usually only loses 2 or 3 games and they still have all of July to play yet..
I agree with Brian, the real solution is to level the playing field here.
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Post by BrianV on Jul 8, 2009 10:00:42 GMT -4
Bethesa Big Train actually represented the Washington franchise. I think that was shortly after the Vienna Senators pulled out of the AAABA or something. They went 0-2 that tournament and lost to New Orleans and Baltimore, if I recall correctly.
I was surprised by the Cal Ripken standings, too. Baltimore always seems so far ahead of everyone else it's amazing they lose at all.
Of course, I'm not sure if Cal Ripken League is the qualifying league for AAABA. I'm still very confused on how they determine which teams represent each franchises. Obvioulsy Johnstown uses the playoff champion, but Zanesville is always the Junior Pioneers, yeah? And Carl's Supermarket has represented Lansing for years. I had thought Altoona was based on the city championship, but Johnson Realty has been the representative for years, too. Furthermore, some teams play in multiple leagues or tournaments, so I'm never quite sure which one to follow. When you check out the team records entering the tournament, some are 48-12 in AAABA games, and some are 12-0, so clearly there are different criteria.
What really gets confusing is that most leagues seem to send their top team to the NABF and the runner-up to AAABA. But each franchise uses a different method of determining which team to send apparently. Hopefully I can ask around this year and try to figure some of this stuff out.
Brian_V
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Post by jkinger26 on Jul 8, 2009 21:54:08 GMT -4
Baltimore does not qualify through the Ripken Sr. League. They qualify through a league in Baltimore city which is the AAABA franchise. Also, I heard today that Washington has been moved out of the Altoona Regional. Also, the team that could be representing Washington this year is Vienna which is coached by Chris Burr who led Washington to a number of championships earlier this decade.
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Post by BrianV on Jul 8, 2009 23:50:47 GMT -4
I think Youse's has won the Baltimore City Championship 70 years in a row or something ridiculous like that, right? Is the City of Baltimore league the same as the one they list at the extreme upper right-hand side of the page here: www.clarkgriffithbaseball.com/Also, while the Cal Ripken isn't a qualifying league, do you know if the Clark Griffith is? Moved Washington, eh? I want to wait for an official release of that, but if so, I'm kind of split. It would be good to have them not playing Baltimore in a qualifying round, but I'm kind of upset the AAABA doesn't have the guts to go through with it. Make it seem like they're playing favorites. More metro area questions. Last I knew, the Senators held a grudge against the league due to some questionable officiating one year, and that's why they stopped coming? Have they patched this up? Also, what happened to the McLean Raiders? I believe they were in the Clark Griffith League last year, and represented Washington the past 2 or 3 seasons, but I can't find the team listed on any standings this season? Did they fold? So confusing Brian_V
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Post by knowitall on Jul 9, 2009 8:35:25 GMT -4
A five team regional doesn't make much sense. I'm wondering if perhaps Washington wasn't listed as participating in that regional by mistake.
The defending champ should get an automatic bid to the following year's tournament.
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Post by jkinger26 on Jul 9, 2009 16:42:01 GMT -4
The Clark Griifith League is a AAABA qualifier league. The Senators decided not to participate after the 03 tournament when they lost to Johnstown in the semi-finals. Yes, they did believe there were some questionable calls. The Mc Clean Raiders from my understanding were operated by the same guy who operates the Senators. I guess they want to come back and become a force in the AAABA again.
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Post by smalltown on Jul 11, 2009 14:52:28 GMT -4
The Clark Griffith sends its top 2 teams to a tournament in Oklahoma that is made up from the top summer collegiate leagues from around the country. The number 3 team from Washington comes to Johnstown.
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Post by smalltown on Jul 11, 2009 15:01:35 GMT -4
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ram
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Post by ram on Jul 14, 2009 9:50:39 GMT -4
Brian, you mean the AAABA plays favorites??? you mean like Altoona and Zanesville get automatic tourney berths every year, Johnstown is always in the losers bracket, etc....
The tournament lacks basic rules/organization. As mentioned above, the rules seem to be different depending on where you play. Some teams can recruit from anywhere, some teams have to win a league, some teams bring league all star teams...does anyone know if there is an official set of rules that apply to everyone???
Either way, I will still enjoy the baseball no matter which teams are playing.
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Post by jkinger26 on Jul 14, 2009 10:57:34 GMT -4
The official set of rules are in the rule book that is printed every year. I believe that any team that holds a regional qualifier gets an automatic berth. I believe each franchise sets the rules as to whether or not a team can recruit. Also, Johnstown is in the lower bracket every year because it makes sense. The gate recipts are very important for the tournament. It does not make sense for Johnstown to get knocked out in two games. Although it does usually happen.
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ram
Rookie
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Post by ram on Jul 14, 2009 14:44:48 GMT -4
JK, I see what you're saying - but ok the teams that host regionals get an auto berth - so how is it determined who holds a regional? and Altoona and Zanesville have one every year so in that sense there is some favorite treatment. I agree that Jtown should be in the losers bracket but my main point being that there seems to be new or different rules for every franchise. When was the last time any of them looked at their own rules? Its literally an old boys club that does whatever they want. I still love the tourney - always will but it is really lacking some structure and new ideas.
Actually Johnstown hasnt exited the tourney in 2 games in quite a long time...at least that I can remember?
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Post by jkinger26 on Jul 14, 2009 17:17:37 GMT -4
I believe anyone can hold a regional. You probably have to talk to Bob Wolfe, John Austin or one of the committee members and let them know you want to host a regional. However, you will have to make sure you have the money to host the teams. This is why Altoona and Zanesville continue to hold regionals because Wole and Austin put a lot of time into this tournament.
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Post by BrianV on Jul 14, 2009 18:31:43 GMT -4
I don't mind having different qualifications for each franchise. I think it adds some character to things. What bugs me is that some leagues don't send their top teams. That speaks much louder than inconsistent rules.
As far as the player pool, I thought Johnstown was the only team who had regional restrictions? Aren't all the other teams available to get players from anywhere?
While having Johnstown in the lower bracket is justified by the financial factor, I'd prefer to see Johnstown seeded just like the other teams. Especially with the way the teams have played over the past decade, I don't think putting Johnstown in the upper bracket would be that big of a deal.
I totally agree about the no new ideas part. Or rather, complete and utter lack of growth. We've been at 22 or 23 franchises for decades. Surely there are teams out there that would be willing to compete for a *free* national tournament.
And presentation sure needs to be better. The Franklin field is a straight-up disgrace. Horrible, horrible place to play. Both there and at UPJ, the scoreboards don't even work.
At registration, they had a representative from Hooser Bats there selling his bats. I noticed plenty of them throughout the dugouts that week, too. But after 65 years, we can only attract ONE company to the tournament? There are a minimum of 112 ball players here, and during registration especially they have lots of free time on their hands. I was impressed with the Axe samples they gave out in the player packages, but surely this tournament can do better than that.
I think that the age restrictions are a big factor in limiting the growth, too. 16-20 splits apart high school and college. A lot of college teams have players up to 22, so they can't compete in the tournament. I'm not yet advocating a change, but it seems to be a bit of a hinderance.
The format that needs changed the most is the lack of growth. If you're not growing, you're dying. And at the very least: working scoreboards.
Brian_V
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